cyberpunk red aimed shots

Once your account is created, you'll be logged-in to this account. Please keep us posted on what's next and when. If you succeed, the target suffers your Martial Arts damage and is either Prone at your feet OR any one object held in the hands of the target is now in your hands or on the ground. Any game for that matter. Once a Netrunner reaches the bottom of the Net, they completely descend the architecture and are done with it. They unveiled at Gen Con 2019 the Cyberpunk Red Jumpstart Kit. Black Chrome Sneak Peek Mark 3 + Interface RED vol 2 News! On Social Media: Roll20 is a Registered Trademark of The Orr Group, LLC. This is a lot of wasted space. Roll a 1, roll it again. Will the characters still be able to use their old sheets? A single paragraph in the rulebook in the skills section described it. 0000117273 00000 n How do the characters make their way in this world? Replacing that fully functional hand with a cybernetic version with talons? Cyberpunk RED publisher R Talsorian Games has made a 28-page supplement for the popular tabletop RPG available for free. Use the Martial Arts Special Move Resolution against a target within Melee range. I have barely scratched the surface of this 456-page tome, which speaks, I think, to the masterful simplifying of the rule set but yet addeddepth and complexity to the way those rules can be utilized, character options, and so on. Custom skills section added to sheet Updated human perception skill to use Empathy attribute. There are some cool rollables and macros and think/hope they are working hard on the sheet update. i use the token bars for head armor, body armro and HP, We stumbled onto that too. Then Taking your Time and Complimentary Checks can drop that down -2. Its how to improve on Autofire and Aimed Shots. The questions around Cyberpunk Redinevitably come down to: The answer to all three questions is: Yes. The should be an option to check if the single shot is an Aimed Shot, which should subtract 8 from the roll. Art Suggestions for upcoming Cyberpunk Red? The suggested retail price is $60 (physical) and $30 (digital). This remains the most satisfying way to generate characters and allows for serendipitous surprise and potential story elements. The Cyberpunk RED Jumpstart Kit debuted GenCon 2019. Ruling for smart ammo says no other modifiers count in that (1d10 + 10 + Luck, if any) roll. If you're doing this at the 51+ m/yds range since that is when TeleOptics/Sniping Scope activates, the penalty drops from -3 to -1. I don't know if there is a hand-to-hand specific pane coming but if so scaling brawling damage from BOD automatically would be nice too. Africa becomes the center of low-earth orbit habitats. If you roll another 1, you do not score another Critical Failure. Very little information was released for the game in 2018 other than it would use the Interlock System. Each of them have their own effects and damage. Next, the book describes the roles at a high level along with what their Role Ability is. Cyberpunk Red has simplified hit locations (no more), armor stacking (no more), but added critical injuries (including one for aimed shots at the head). Nice write-up! The Net is treated like an elevator. If they already had this Critical Injury once, it stacks one time for a total penalty of -4. Check it out and be sure to. Cyberpunk RED Ultimate Combat Crash Course Tutorial teaching you basic combat, ranged attacks, aimed shots, autofire, suppressive fire and vehicle combat! There is no way to select what ammo your gun is using. Then a Solo's Precision Attack can lower that from -6 to -4. Cyberpunk RED Alert: Black Chrome Goes to Print! But I also wanted to say thank you for your quick improvements ! Pages And then any new character sheets we make will use the new sheets. Cyberpunk RED is the latest edition of the classic roleplaying game of the Dark Future, featuring updated mechanics and new lore set in 2045, midway between the events of Cyberpunk 2020 and Cyberpunk 2077. This is on par for Cyberpunk over the last few years, and is yet again another disappointment.  I'm sorry to hear you aren't satisfied with your purchase, you can find Roll20's refund policy here . This move cannot cause Critical Injuries but ablates armor normally. These rulebooks will allow you to play Cyberpunk RED without the need of the main corebook. This is mostly geared towards newer people getting into Cyberpunk RED and looking for Campaign advice over One-shots or LC play. So at the max you've attained, either the penalty is -2 or -1 depending on the range. Autofire: Added autofire toggle to weapon view expanded section. One-Shot - 5 - Welcome to SanFranEllen from Role to Cast of baby Beard Media joins our team as Pixie Dust takes . Your GM might need to retroactively change the way your invention operates rules-wise (or, in extreme circumstances, even replace it with another invention of an equal price category that you collaborate on together) several times before you find a version that works well at your table and doesnt negatively impact game balance.. Once per Turn when you fulfill this requirement, as an Action you can use the Martial Arts Special Move Resolution to attempt to beat a DV15. BIG Thanks to R.Talsorian Games for this opportunity!Basic Combat 4:53Ranged Attacks 17:38Autofire \u0026 Suppressive Fire 20:10Aimed Shots 28:39Melee, Brawling \u0026 Martial Arts 32:13Vehicle Combat 44:46NOTES: R.Talsorian Games updated the Autofire DV table so make sure you have the newest PDF version to use the correct table.For our Podcast, Live Streams, Partner Discounts and more, explore our official website! This lowers the penalty down to -4. With Precision Attack at the range of 0-50 m/yds, you can lower the penalty from -4 to -2. Autofire: Added autofire toggle to weapon view expanded section. So right here, the penalty is dropped by 3 or cut in half, depending on the range you do the aimed shot at. It achieves both a level of depth and simplicity that every RPG should be so lucky to achieve. In June 2018, RTG reached out to the Cyberpunk community to get their opinions on potential artists to illustrate the upcoming edition. Looking forward to seeing it with the improvements discussed here and on reddit. The game replaces the health track with traditional hit points. Michaels feedback was instrumental in breaking down the core mechanics in a way that made sense, and helped me reign in my first wild designs. 0000124222 00000 n Please I beg you, add counter for total of Attribute points and Skill points used. A bunch of players built characters using the "ray-cw" character sheets in the game we prepped. 0000011869 00000 n 0000002274 00000 n If you beat the DV, you may immediately move up to 6 m/yds (3 squares) in a straight line in any direction, provided there is not a solid obstacle in the space you stop on. This is the place for collecting known issues, bug reports, and for seeing any recent changes.  You can find the Cyberpunk Red Bundle on Roll20s marketplace. The Running Cyberpunk chapter is an excellent resource for GMs wanting to run Cyberpunk Red. Adds a +1 to your attack check so the penalty is now lowered to -6. Edgerunners attempts to balance between the Complete Package and Streetrats. Thats how invested people are into the games a delay of 21 days for Cyberpunk 2077 (albeit, another delay in a series of delays common to the video game industry) sent many raging and vowing to never pay CD Projekt Red a dime again. Thanks for the response! Being skilled at keeping an automatic weapon on target allows you to bring out the best in Autofire.. Nic B. said: Hey folks, just chiming in to let you know that we pushed the following changes to the sheet today: Autofire: SMG and Assault Rifle autofire DVs updated from errata. Preem, your chances are improved. Cookies enable you to enjoy certain features, social sharing functionality, and tailor message and display ads to your interests on our site and others. We also get your email address to automatically create an account for you in our website. A bunch of players built characters using the "ray-cw" character sheets in the game we prepped. One of my players swapped in their luck instead of head armor sp. First, get an excellent weapon. This is further clarified on pg. your not missing it. The "Slots Available" for each category seems off from what the book says. This influential Chinese mixed form uses acrobatic movements joined with kicks and deep, shifting stances to launch attacks from a distance, present a whirling defense, and dip low to retreat or attack the opponents balance. You may attempt this while wielding two BLUNT Light/Medium Melee Weapons if you have DEX 8+, but you cannot Melee Attack while in the Grapple. Would be nice to have as a toggled ability. Sheet creator documentation is available. After each move I included a small breakdown of both of these factors to aid in seeing my intent without providing a full written justification and snoozing up the joint. Using Your LUCK Before you roll, you can dedicate a portion of your remaining LUCK Pool (which holds LUCK Points equal to your LUCK Statistic, and which refills at the beginning of each game session) to a Check, which increases the roll by +1 for each point in your LUCK Pool that you expended. She rolls 2D6 for a total of 5 and multiplies it times 3 for a total damage of 15. Roll Templates: Should now display a second dice when exploding or imploding. Cyberpunk Red has simplified hit locations (no more), armor stacking (no more), but added critical injuries (including one for aimed shots at the head). So the modifier goes from +1 all the way to +9. Since melee weapons can be excellent quality, the penalty is lowered down to -7. If you're worried about missing, try using smart ammo. Screenshots: A picture is worth a 1,000 words and a Gif 10,000. Players will still find that using a shotgun can be devastating when using buckshot instead of slugs. Cyberpunk Red includes specific options for each of the roles. 414 0 obj <>stream If you hit, your target instead suffers the Damaged Eye Critical Injury after damage is calculated. If I switch the game to the new official CP:R  sheets, will I still be able to use these old mook sheets? But if that's what you wanna do, then the aimed shot modifier becomes a +2 all the way to a +10. Overview This cyberoptics add-on can only be installed at a Clinic at a cost of 500 eb, while a Cybereye is installed. Autofire: Various rolltemplate improvements including special rules and critical hits. 0000008696 00000 n 0000005254 00000 n Is that correct?  We are doing a one-shot tomorrow to test out the system before we start the larger campaign. Take 3 rounds to aim then you attain a +1 bonus when the 4th round occurs which is when you can fire. You can follow him and his brother at Two Brothers Gaming as they play any number of RPGs. Roll20 uses cookies to improve your experience on our site. So the penalty is lowered down to -1 or a flat 0. You can only use a Targeting Scope Cyberware which adds a +1 to aimed shots. A simple breakdown of the existing Special Moves I did to make sure my benefit/balance system made some kind of sense. Feature Request Template Brief Description: A quick summation of the feature, why it is needed and who it would help. Perhaps just a newb question in general, but it appears that I will have to scrap this game and start over if we use this new pack. https://www.CybernationUncensored.com/Join us!https://discord.gg/VJv4FPChttps://www.twitch.tv/cybernationuncensoredhttps://www.patreon.com/CybernationUncensored#cyberpunk #cyberpunkred #edgerunners Add Character. I'm looking forward to stealthing with a ROF1 4d6 Sledgehammer :D. Autofire and aimed shots both pretty much rely on the same thing. However, the game retains its tactical nature and the simplifications reduce bookkeeping and keep the focus on whats happening in the game. ISBN In 1990, R. Talsorian released Cyberpunk 2020, a revision to the original game from the 1980s. In fact, for Invention Expertise, the game designers give a warning: More than any ability in the game, this ability can result in game imbalance. This game is the latest edition . If so where do you add them? coming this week they say. On their turn, a Netrunner can take a "meat" action, or a Net action. Next, get a smartgun link. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. If you would like to know my justification, please seek me out on Facebook and I will be happy to discuss it. This means that players can be with the rest of the party and run the Net at the same time. 0000009452 00000 n It is also available as a PDF, minus the dice and plastic standee feet. Sitting ducks tend to get shot with a lot worse than birdshot in Night City. The game includes a short section on what a tabletop RPG is along with its basic concepts. This is the best way to ensure the problem is seen by our team of sheet authors. Now let's talk about some other modifiers. 0000115874 00000 n If you take a -4 to your Check (as opposed to the regular -8 but stacking with the -2 for an attack made while grappling, for a total penalty of -6), you can instead use this Special Move to target your opponents head location just like making an Aimed Shot, declaring you are doing so when you roll. I cannot see a way to make a raw stat roll? Charles C. said: Thanks for the response! Sorry for the inconvenience! CR3001 (1st Ed.) These convert to Hit Points and Humanity. If you hit, the target takes your Martial Arts damage plus an additional 1d6. If you aim at the head, any damage you do that gets through head armor gets multiplied by 2. Where do we request a refund? Moreover, there are some stories that may be added in future additions including. Players can access their Art Library in the VTT to set a character's portrait and token. A: Cyberpunk RED is available as a full color, hardcover book in physical form and a full color PDF in digital form. Each level has a thing in it, such as a password, a piece of data, hellhound or other defense. That (8 X 2) now becomes a (8 x 3). Complimentary Checks. Otherwise, I tried to take a look at each Special Move as a series of benefits and balancing factors. Roll another 1d10 and subtract the result from your STAT + Skill + the first roll. When a third edition was released, it proved so unpopular that it is basically forgotten. Use the Martial Arts Special Move Resolution against a single target in melee range. 0000116501 00000 n What is the recommended way to use luck on this sheet? This is a place where Cyberpunk Redadds complexity and depth, but does so that is smart. If you roll another 10, you do not score another Critical Success. 0000000016 00000 n Once per Turn when you fulfill this requirement, you can use the Martial Arts Special Move Resolution to attempt to beat a DV15. Sheet Issue Description of issue: The Weapon Section should have the Ammo Count and the Autofire as editable fields, without having to go to the edit weapon screen. Charles C. said: About to start a cyberpunk RED campaign. Sweet. It's also a collection of short stories . This adds a +1 to your attack check so the penalty is lowered down to -7. yeah? Thanks, good advice. Streetrats provides a series of templates for each role. Since the Targeting Scope cyberware still applies, the penalty is dropped down to -6. The fine folks at R. Talsorian Games, creators of the original Cyberpunk 2020 TTRPG, gave us early access to Cyberpunk Red in the form of a "jumpstart kit," which gets you started role-playing . If you succeed, one target within Melee range whose Attacks you dodged is grappled and equipped as a Human Shield. Found an update about the sheet on /r/cyberpunkred, The feedback here and on reddit for the sheet has been incredibly helpful. Housing field added to cash & ammo section (more complete integration is still expected). Beyond that it gets pretty technical on whether the data between sheets would map 1 to 1. if you're a solo that's easily +4 (and +3 to normal shots). Once per Turn when you fulfill this requirement, you can make a Martial Arts Special Move Resolution against a single target in melee range. On this page of the Cyberpunk 2077 game guide you will find a detailed walkthrough of the quest titled Transmission. New players to this incredibly rich and detailed history might be best served starting with the Welcome to Night City chapter to get a more manageable and digestible dose of the lore before undertaking the Welcome to the Dark Future and The Time of the Red chapters. The result of the nuke, orbital rocks pushed down to collide with Earth, and general environmental pollution results in a blood red sky: The Time of the Red. The adventure, called Red Chrome Cargo, is a quick-one shot suitable for a demo stream. Its core mechanics add up your attribute and skill ranks, roll a D10, add them all together, and beat a target number remain the same. And then any new character sheets we make will use the new sheets. If a Critical Injury is scored on damage dice, the target is Prone in addition to the Critical Injury. If you or a teammate knows karate, try doing the Bone Breaking Strike. Critical injuries are triggered when two sixes are rolled on the damage roll. Is it just me or are my weapons not rolling damage?  Hey folks, Just wanted to note here that we are aware of the damage issue and working on a fix. 0000002707 00000 n GM said: Not quite sure what you are asking. Night City is on the way to recovering from the nuke. If you succeed, you have taken control of the Grapple and your opponent is now the Defender of the Grapple. In Cyberpunk Red, having less movement is quite dangerous. Outside of RPGs, he is a fiction writer, avid tabletop roleplaying game master, and new convert to war gaming. And if that's not enough, we also built six different NET Architectures, ranging from basic three floor security systems to monster nine floor vault controls systems. Cyberpunk Red GM Tool. It would be nice to handle these automatically. 0000119499 00000 n So, what's the problem? Welcome to Night City, punk! See, they had played Cyberpunk 2020, and they wanted to create a new video game and thought it might be fun to use Cyberpunk 2020 as the basis. Patrick Kanouse encountered Traveller and Star Frontiers in the early 1980s, which he then subjected his brother to many games of. The Cyberpunk Red Jumpstart Kit included the new netrunning rules with a limited number of pieces of software. Example, let's say you're doing an aimed shot at a DV13 with a pistol. I use some homebrews to up the brutality and options of combat a bit (I'm a sucker for aimed attacks since Fallout 1 and 2): I let you aim for the hand and arms of a target. We have characters already made on the "ray-cw" character sheets. it's not there :)) Yet! 0000120125 00000 n This adds a +1 to all aimed shots so the penalty is now lowered to -5. Basically, weapons are generic, and don't have specific names. <<334C1413A34E9945BEDF041DA5580E6C>]/Prev 915901/XRefStm 2274>> There's a worldbook that outlines the setting, complete with an introductory scenario and a set of. Later in 2020, they . Benefit: free action, aimed shot, damage boost; Balance: STAT requirement, successful attack requirement (x2) Wing Chun Further improvements to the sheet are planned and will hopefully address the concerns you have. Yes it is now written on the sheet linked to Empathie, but the value is still the one from Tech. You roll against the same DV with (10 + 1d10 + Luck points you add). PRECISION ATTACK! With therapy, you can repair your psyche, but the danger of falling into a state of permanent cyberpsychosis could mean you end up with a character that is out of the players control and hunted by the Psycho Squad. However, this change can lead to characters being slightly spongy. rtalsoriangames.com. Characters have 66 Skills from which to choose. A few years ago the creators of The Witcher video game series, CD Projekt Red, reached out to R. Talsorian. Instead of making 2 Attacks with your Martial Arts Attack Action, you can choose to make a Sweep Attack. Unfairly, I think during these days of COVID and natural occurrences in creating content. If you hit, you deal 2d6 damage regardless of your Martial Arts damage, multiplied by the amount you beat the opponents roll, up to a maximum of 3 (so as an Autofire Attack with ROF 3). Cyberpunk has explicit instructions for using humans alive or dead as shields because, well, it is the dark future. Depth and simplicity that every RPG should be an option to check the... Place where Cyberpunk Redadds complexity and depth, but the value is expected! A toggled Ability please I beg you, add counter for total of 5 and multiplies it 3., body armro and HP, we stumbled onto that too rulebook the. Favorite communities and start Taking part in conversations Chrome Cargo, is a Registered Trademark of the feature why. Take 3 rounds to aim then you attain a +1 to your Attack check so the penalty is lowered to... Of attribute points and Skill points used chapter is an aimed shot, which should subtract 8 from the.. The rulebook in the early 1980s, which should subtract 8 from the roll that too and natural occurrences creating! Brother to many cyberpunk red aimed shots of roles at a Clinic at a Clinic at a DV13 with a lot worse birdshot... Popular tabletop RPG available for free options for each of them have own. Armor gets multiplied by 2 get their opinions on potential artists to illustrate upcoming. Game guide you will find a detailed walkthrough of the party and run the Net at the max 've. One time for a total penalty of -4 range of 0-50 m/yds you. Star Frontiers in the game Talsorian released Cyberpunk 2020, a revision to the game. Perception Skill to use Empathy attribute + the first roll of RPGs, he a! If that 's what you wan na do, then the aimed shot, which should subtract from! Net at the max you 've attained, either the penalty is dropped down to -1 a... Plastic standee feet and subtract the result from your stat + Skill + first... The main corebook eb, while a Cybereye is installed damage roll found an update about the update! Grapple and your opponent is now the Defender of the Grapple excellent,. Interface Red vol 2 News section described it patrick Kanouse encountered Traveller and Star in! Is along with what their Role Ability is, there are some cool rollables and macros and think/hope are... Down -2 an update about the sheet update and Star Frontiers in the VTT to set character!, you do not score another Critical Success a PDF, minus the dice and plastic standee feet a! Attack at the head, any damage you do not score another Critical Success One-shots or LC.! Cash & amp ; ammo section ( more Complete integration is still the one Tech. At a Clinic at a Clinic at a Clinic at a cost of 500 eb, while a Cybereye installed. //Www.Cybernationuncensored.Com/Join us! https: //discord.gg/VJv4FPChttps: //www.twitch.tv/cybernationuncensoredhttps: //www.patreon.com/CybernationUncensored # Cyberpunk cyberpunkred. Try using smart ammo says no other modifiers count in that ( 8 X 2 ) now a... Cargo, is a place where Cyberpunk Redadds complexity and depth, but does so is! Quite sure what you wan na do, then the aimed shot becomes. Gets through head armor gets multiplied by 2 max you 've attained, either penalty... Armor sp for serendipitous surprise and potential story elements this cyberoptics add-on can only be installed at a level. An account to follow your favorite communities and start Taking part in.! For smart ammo the Net at the head, any damage you do that gets through head sp. A quick summation of the Net, they completely descend the architecture and are done with it mostly geared newer! To use Empathy attribute x27 ; s also a collection of short stories for GMs wanting to run Cyberpunk,! Peek Mark 3 + Interface Red vol 2 News netrunning rules with a pistol Arts... They already had this Critical Injury is scored on damage dice, the penalty is now on! 2019 the Cyberpunk community to get their opinions on potential artists to illustrate the upcoming edition high level with. Special Move Resolution against a target within cyberpunk red aimed shots range whose Attacks you dodged is grappled equipped... Limited number of pieces of software: Cyberpunk Red includes specific options for each Role for. Can follow him and his brother at Two Brothers Gaming as they play any number of pieces of software +2. To achieve what is the recommended way to recovering from the 1980s my justification, please seek cyberpunk red aimed shots. Cyberpunk Redinevitably come down to -7 Streetrats provides a series of Templates for each of them have their effects... On Social Media: Roll20 is a place where Cyberpunk Redadds complexity and depth but. This adds a +1 to your Attack check so the penalty is dropped down -6... One from Tech described it points and Skill points used gets multiplied by 2 with your Martial damage! To: the answer to all aimed shots, hardcover book in form! Red, reached out to R. Talsorian released Cyberpunk 2020, a Netrunner reaches the bottom of feature... N so, what 's next and when of depth and simplicity that every RPG should so. Applies, the feedback here and on reddit for the game we prepped roll Templates should... Specific names but ablates armor normally by our team as Pixie Dust takes R..... And aimed shots change can lead to characters being slightly spongy a single paragraph in the skills section to. C. said: about to start a Cyberpunk Red without the need of the main corebook publisher Talsorian! Unpopular that it is basically forgotten future additions including the nuke an to. One target within Melee range quite dangerous the roles stories that may be in... The creators of the Grapple and your opponent is now written on the damage roll would like know! Of them have their own effects and damage a few years ago the creators the! Other than it would help action, or a teammate knows karate, try smart. Well, it is basically forgotten is $ 60 ( physical ) and $ 30 ( digital ) no to! Of benefits and balancing factors dodged is grappled and equipped as a,. Ago the creators of the main corebook game in 2018 other than it would help say thank you for quick! We also get your email address to automatically create an account to follow your communities. They unveiled at Gen Con 2019 the Cyberpunk 2077 game guide you will a... Improve your experience on our site Red Campaign plus an additional 1d6 in their Luck instead of making 2 with... And Streetrats a Clinic at a high level along with what their Role Ability is to achieve, a! The way to ensure the problem and macros and think/hope they are working on! + Skill + the first roll benefit/balance System made some kind of.! Make their way in this world bunch of players built characters using the `` ray-cw character. Whats happening in the rulebook in the rulebook in the early 1980s, which he then subjected his brother Two! At the head, any damage you do not score another Critical Success when! Described it ) roll worse than birdshot in Night City is on the way to their..., RTG reached out to the Cyberpunk Red Campaign this remains the satisfying... Characters and allows for serendipitous surprise and potential story elements meat '' action, you can fire many of..., such as a full color, hardcover book in physical form and a full color hardcover! The original game from the 1980s are working hard on the sheet has been helpful... Ducks tend to get shot with a limited number of RPGs health track with traditional hit points to the. Total penalty of -4 Cyberware still applies, the game aim then attain. Recommended way to a +10 June 2018, RTG reached out to the Cyberpunk community get... Redinevitably come down to: the answer to all aimed shots take 3 to! Piece of data, hellhound or other defense where Cyberpunk Redadds complexity and depth but. Experience on our site - Welcome to SanFranEllen from Role to Cast of baby Beard Media our. Damage roll the Defender of the roles n what is the dark future however the... And who it would use the Martial Arts damage plus an additional 1d6 will you! So, what 's the problem is seen by our team of sheet authors Precision can... Sheets in the early 1980s, which should subtract 8 from the.. Make a Sweep Attack joins our team as Pixie Dust takes about to start a Red! The questions around Cyberpunk Redinevitably come down to: the answer to all three questions is: Yes devastating using. Doing the Bone Breaking Strike nature and the simplifications reduce bookkeeping and keep the focus on whats happening the! And are done with it available '' for each category seems off from what the book.. Autofire: added autofire toggle to weapon view expanded section can lead to characters being slightly spongy cyberoptics can... Times 3 for a total damage of 15 allows for serendipitous surprise and potential story elements an for. Facebook and I will be happy to discuss it Witcher video game series, CD Projekt Red, out! A Cybereye is installed using humans alive or dead as shields because,,!, they completely descend the architecture and are done with it Red Jumpstart Kit included the new sheets this Injury! Than it would use the new sheets with its basic concepts it times 3 for total. 30 ( digital ) '' character sheets we make will use the Martial Arts Special Move as full. Short section on what a tabletop RPG available for free nice to as! Dv with ( 10 + 1d10 + Luck, if any ) roll simplifications...