In 1982, for ABC's Nightline, Bernstein was the first to report[citation needed] during the Israeli invasion of Lebanon that Ariel Sharon had "deceived the cabinet about the real intention of the operationto drive the Palestinians out of Lebanon, not (as he had claimed) to merely establish a 25-kilometer security zone north from the border". How would you summarize that? People who went to Wheaton College had to sign a pledge: no drinking, smoking, dancing, movies, playing of cards. It also made Woodward and Bernstein the most famous journalists of all time. Watergate was the biggest political scandal of the century. Ben Bradlee: Because the kids were right. How did you do that? #inline-recirc-item--id-abdd83c2-8c88-11e2-b06b-024c619f5c3d ~ .item:nth-child(5) { He has shared in two Pulitzer Prizes, first for the coverage of the Watergate scandal with Carl Bernstein, and second as the lead reporter for coverage of the 9/11 terrorist attacks. You want to spend time on it. He wanted to film it from 3:00 in the morning until 8:00 in the morning, and we just told him it was not possible. J. Anthony Lukas, Nightmare: The Underside of the Nixon Years (1976) is an exciting narrative and analysis by a New York Times reporter that puts Watergate into the context of what the author refers to as "Richard Nixon's abuse of his presidential powers." Mr. Woodward, there is an interesting scene in the book and in the film All the Presidents Men where you tap out a story and Carl Bernstein immediately starts rewriting it, and youre miffed. Ben Bradlee: By an overwhelming margin, as we were reminded so often. Contributors control their own work and posted freely to our site. "They were journalistic icons for the role they played in bringing down, or helping to bring down a president of the United States, (Richard) Nixon in 1974," Shepard understated. "They couldn't be more different. W. Joseph Campbell does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment. Editors at the WaPo said that Lewis' early reporting and evidence findings are what convinced them that the story was greater than a simple break-in. Each of these presidents had their own way of responding. The arrest of the Watergate burglars may have happened in the dead of night, but what came in the months ahead was truly an awakening. He attended Yale University on a Naval ROTC scholarship, and majored in history and English literature. Part of HuffPost Media. One story that Ephron shared with Pakula concerned how the two reporters sparred as they raced to complete the book All the Presidents Men. Woodward, she told the director, could be so stubborn and bullheaded and had no instinct for writing. When Ephron and Bernstein were in Martinique on vacation, Woodward and Bernstein fought on the telephone, to the tune of a $400 bill, about verb tenses. Had he been Deep Throat, he once told a Connecticut newspaper, I would have done better. Haldeman? Get our L.A. I say we publish it. And three of the journalists all hung up immediately, because we didnt want any we had what we came for, and we didnt want to let her change her mind. But even they seemed to take the wrong lessons from what they'd done. How does this affect me, Nixon, the president? Carl had a harder time. I remember going around and giving my name to lots of people, and they would say, Oh, youre Al Woodwards son. Maybe we have a story and maybe we dont.. Trending News Woodward -- the one who stayed in the Beltway journalism racket -- had all the access to the highest level officials that he had craved at the start of Watergate, and yet he remained clueless as to how such access could provide as much disinformation as truth. [24], In 2012, Carl Bernstein spoke at a rally of People's Mujahedin of Iran, an opposition Iranian organization that had previously been listed as a Foreign Terrorist Organization by the United States, reportedly receiving a payment for his speech.[25]. More than 40 years after they became the world's most famous journalism duo, Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein are still making news. They wrote the best-selling All the President's Men and became millionaires. Jiri and Rakic are still injured, Ankle-Ayev and Jan just fought (and no one wants to see it again), Oezdemir/Smith are game but definitely past their prime, and then there's weirdsmobiles like Walker, Craig, Krylov, and Spann who are too hot-and-cold to truly put together a title run. Harry S. Truman He also felt compelled, as a reporter, to point out that Bernstein's remarks were . Kind of going, CIA. And the judge said, Where? And he went, CIA. And the judge said, Speak up. If you didnt have the Independent Counsel, which was a direct outgrowth of Watergate, you never would have had Ken Starr, you never would have had a criminal investigation of Clinton. The distinct memories I have of books are from college. Why did this happen? 2023 BuzzFeed, Inc. All rights reserved. Mr. Woodward, in your bookShadowyou talk about how Nixons presidency affected the presidents whove come since. On June 17, 1972, Woodward was assigned to cover a story about an attempted burglary the night before in which five men had been arrested at the headquarters of the We made one mistake in a story in which we said that Woodward and Bernstein said that there was a slush fund of $300,000 set up in the Committee to Re-elect the President, and it was controlled by Haldeman, and that one of the witnesses had testified to that slush fund to the grand jury investigating Watergate. And she said, When will we know the full story of Watergate? Watergate reporters come together to discuss the 40-year-old scandal which resulted in the resignation of President Richard Nixon. "You could just tell," Shepard continued, "by how different they were that they wouldn't be friends and they wouldn't be working together. [14] While there, he won first prize in New Jersey's press association for investigative reporting, feature writing, and news on a deadline. The book inescapably promoted the impression Woodward and Bernstein were vital to Watergates outcome. Woodward relied on one source whom he refused to identify even to his editors except by the code-name "Deep Throat.". (February 22, 2023). At 2 a.m. yesterday, the Watergate scandal turned 40. They were 30 and 31.". He had gone to Vietnam as a soldier, so he had fought in Vietnam, but he got convinced that it was a quagmire and that it was a great mistake and that by releasing this study, he could shine light into the darkest corners and change the course of the world. Where were you when he resigned, and what were your feelings? Are there particular books that you remember? Published in September 2018, the book became an instantaneous bestseller, with 900,000 copies sold on the first day, 1.1 million in the first week. That the difficulties they put up to prevent the truth from coming out had been overcome. He is the author or co-author of seven books: All the President's Men, The Final Days, and The Secret Man, with Bob Woodward; His Holiness: John Paul II and the History of Our Time, with Marco Politi; Loyalties; A Woman in Charge: The Life of Hillary Rodham Clinton;[3] and Chasing History, a memoir of his early years in journalism. It was a difficult time to be associated with something youre pretty sure is not right. What does the American Dream mean to you? Im out there doing it, and if theres pressure or debate or controversy, theyre absorbing that pressure. Underneath all the arguments and fights -- way down, they hated each other, Pakula wrote. And once you are convicted of a felony, you cant own television stations, so it would have cost us all the television stations. That we had done stories, but it is a process of the judiciary, the Congress, the Supreme Court, that led to Nixons demise. Lewis was with the Post from 1935 until his retirement in 1985. This practice was usually followed scrupulously, but broke down when Bernstein and Woodward wrongly claimed that Hugh Sloan, a CRP official, had implicated H. R. "Bob" Haldeman, Nixon's chief of staff, in testimony before a grand jury. And when, the next day, Woodward this is probably Sunday or maybe Monday, because the burglary was Saturday morning early called the number and asked to speak to Mr. Hunt, and the operator said, Well, hes not here now; hes over at such-and-such a place, gave him another number, and Woodward called him up, and Hunt answered the phone, and Woodward said, We want to know why your name was in the address book of the Watergate burglars. And there is this long, deathly hush, and Hunt said, Oh, my God! and hung up. He sat down with Woodward, then 32, Bernstein, then 31, their editors, their friends and the two women at the center of the reporters' lives. Richard Nixon's RN: The Memoirs of Richard Nixon (1978) gives the former president's version of the events surrounding Watergate. People had troubles, and people had secrets. Eighteen years after the Supreme Court ruled that they couldnt shut us down, the prosecuting attorney, who was the Solicitor General of the United States, wrote the Post a letter saying that in the whole Pentagon Papers, there was no threat to national security. We actually published three papers with it before they stopped us, and then we were in the courts for 12 days. But by end of 1976, they had an ugly breakup and went their separate ways. You want to deal a careful glancing blow. The next year, when I entered college determined to be a reporter just like the guys that Robert Redford and Dustin Hoffman had portrayed on the screen, there was a surge in enrollment in journalism schools. Published in the late spring of 1974, All the President's Men was an immediate best seller. The greater significance of Watergate was something that was hard to grasp in 1974, but seems crystal clear now, at least to me. Who would be dumb enough to work on this story on a Saturday morning? And they thought of me immediately. There was an election on in 72, and most of the rest of the country was saying, The Post is just playing politics, and all that stuff. You get to see other peoples lives, and you chart the rise and fall of others, and youre not that involved. Therefore, that information is unavailable for most Encyclopedia.com content. What I try to do is piece together how people make decisions. Its not clear, its obscure. Were there siblings? No surprises. Most news outlets dropped the story, and Nixon was re-elected in a historic landslide. There were 7,000 papers finally, and The New York Times got a copy of it. And there came a time when we had to get her, okay, and the lawyers started off by telling her the lawyer was one of the greatest men, even though he didnt approve of publishing it but the way he told her that was just so important. Are you and Bernstein still friends? Ben Bradlee: Well, right away, with Hunts name and the White House telephone number in there. It was strange. By his own admission he failed at that". Why did they think of you? Bob Woodward: This is a book I did in 1999 that took the five presidents after Nixon Ford, Carter, Reagan, the first Bush, and Clinton and analyzed the Special Prosecutor law, and showed how that, and the new climate of Congressional activism and media activism, meant the presidency was going to be forever altered. The qualities that each other had -- the qualities that they needed [to report Watergate] -- they didnt like. In 1974, two years after the Watergate burglary and two months before Nixon resigned, Bernstein and Woodward released the book All the President's Men. So I did not have two years experience. Where do you work? And of course, as I now recall Faulkner novels, the characters are trying to find out what happened. The team stole top-secret documents and wiretapped the phones to listen to conversations. Think of that! Some people haven't seen it yet. We didnt allow any television people in. The piston driving the Nixon administration was hate. It was embarrassing that they had this great story and we didnt. He quickly tired of the routine assignments his position offered, and began to hunt for news on his own. His father was a judge and Woodward eventually entered the Navy after graduating from Yale. Bob Woodward: Yes, and then later, my parents were divorced, and my father remarried a woman who had three kids also. In The Choice, he uses his proven research methods for an illuminating examination of the quest for the presidency. His unfounded fear of being fired and his need to belong fueled his workaholic lifestyle. Still, Felt resigned from the FBI in June 1973 after he was suspected of leaking information to The New York Times. I think journalism is a practice, like law, that you keep learning. NEW YORK . While a young reporter for The Washington Post in 1972, Bernstein was teamed up with Bob Woodward, and the two did much of the original news reporting on the Watergate scandal. The Post played a critical role in the beginning, and Woodward and Bernstein came in at critical moments. 2019Encyclopedia.com | All rights reserved. I may have been an extreme case, but not a unique one. It was going to be reproduced in the history books, and we wanted to be sure that we got it right, and be sure that some there wasnt a typo. Dont tell me never. Get to the bottom of it. That your resources, the resources of the newspaper, should be directed at completing this story, getting the full tale, if you would. That we do explain enough about whats going on. Encyclopedia of World Biography. One of the managing editors at the Post, Howard Simons, during Watergate this was not on a Watergate story, but I was struggling with a story early in my time at the Post and he came by, and he said, You dont have to understand a man in an afternoon. In other words, you dont have to do it in a day, and you wont achieve understanding of it in an slow down, take your time, dig, go back. So much has happened since then. Much of their hard work was a quest for access to anyone who knew the real secrets of the Nixon White House. Woodward, 60, whose parents divorced when he was 12, is the son of a Midwestern Republican judge, graduated from Yale in 1965, and joined the Navy. Soon other newspapers began to investigate the Watergate story more energetically, and legislative and judicial agencies began to uncover a larger and larger pattern of lawbreaking. ." The movie made Woodward and Bernstein forever famous and has become a classic. Bernstein was portrayed by Dustin Hoffman in the film version of All the President's Men[28] and by Bruce McCulloch in the 1999 comedy film Dick. Bob Woodward may have achieved the greatest publishing success of his career with Fear, the inside story of turmoil inside the administration of President Donald Trump. But the real input comes from people who believe in a free press, believe in the First Amendment, believe in open discourse as much as possible, hate secrets, hate secret government, hate secret concentrations of power. We're much better friends than we were at the time. How do you think your different perspectives and personalities complemented one another as you continued the Watergate investigation? Stop!, Bernstein recalled in a 1975 interview, now in Pakulas archive, that big crowds were outside. The best duos complement the other's strengths. . ALICIA C. SHEPARD, who teaches journalism at American University, is the author of "Woodward and Bernstein: Life in the Shadow of Watergate. They were after us and The New York Times. Carl knew he needed [that quality] but despised it in Bob. So that gave hope to the Republicans, and of course, all of the Republican spokesmen had a field day beating us upside the face over that, but it didnt last very long. Bob Woodward: No. With astonishing regularity, Woodward has continued to produce bestselling books on previously hidden aspects of American life. Bob Woodward: We would frequently do competing drafts of stories and put it together. It has been said that as dark a chapter as Watergate was in the American presidency, in a sense, it showed the branches of government working. And that this wasnt just a cover-up of a burglary. ", After Watergate, Shepard says, the two went in "completely different directions. We had one day. I had worked for the Post for nine months. Nixon didnt last too long in that second term. Encyclopedia of World Biography. Bob Woodward: In the family I was raised in: a brother, a sister, two stepsisters, a half-sister. Without them, he likely would have served out his presidential term. Woodwards critics insisted that this informant was a fabrication, or at best, a composite based on a number of sources. Bob Woodward: Or The Sound and the Fury, which is his great book. It took a long time, and if you examine the sequence, you could identify hundreds of points where the road to full disclosure would have been the thread would have been cut. 1996 - 2023 American AcademyofAchievement. Mr. Woodward, can you tell us about the night you first got that phone call about a break-in at the Watergate? All the Presidents Men was published in June 1974 and quickly reached the top of The New York Times bestseller list, remaining there 15 weeks, through Nixons resignation and beyond. Mr. Bradlee, at what point did you get the inkling that the Oval Office was involved? On stage, Dean Martin was the suave crooner while Jerry Lewis was the lovable buffoon. Pick a style below, and copy the text for your bibliography. Bob Woodward: June 17, 1972. In 2005, the mystery surrounding the identity of Watergate informant Deep Throat was ended. The young protesters were arguably unlearning the false lessons of Watergate, that meaningful social change had to come from pounding the pavement, not just from pounding a keyboard. Vertalingen van het uitdrukking IK BEN BOB WOODWARD van nederlands naar engels en voorbeelden van het gebruik van "IK BEN BOB WOODWARD" in een zin met hun vertalingen: En ik ben Bob Woodward .. After the Times had been estopped by a judge, we decided to publish them. This week marks the 50th anniversary of the Watergate break-in and, of. The shadowy man was the compass to point the journalist duo in the right direction. These guys lied because they didnt know the truth, and they couldnt believe that they were being lied to. . In addition to the espionage and sabotage, another series of felonies stemmed from the attempt to cover up the earlier crimes by perjury and other obstructions of justice. Washington Post reporters Bob Woodward, left, and Carl Bernstein on March 1, 1974, Washington, D.C. Because each style has its own formatting nuances that evolve over time and not all information is available for every reference entry or article, Encyclopedia.com cannot guarantee each citation it generates. Additionally, he is a regular political commentator on CNN. The burglary was revealed as part of an extensive program of political espionage and sabotage run by Nixon subordinates at the White House and its political campaign organization, the Committee to Re-Elect the President (CRP, or, as referred to in most later press coverage, CREEP). It was going to be scrutinized and examined. The guts are supplied by the owners of the newspaper and the editors. We were told that before we could write it, but yes, we knew it. Mr. President, the media is not fake news. This is not your average burglary.. Make no mistake (as Nixon himself was fond of saying), what Woodward and Bernstein accomplished from 1972 to 1974 was incredible and deserving of all the accolades they received at the time. Bob Woodward: Of course. Margaret later became a government minister in her own right. [16], In 1992, also for Time, Bernstein wrote a cover story publicizing the alliance between Pope John Paul II and President Ronald Reagan. One doesnt think of humility as a common quality of journalists for some reason. What were they doing? Im not really like that anymore, Bernstein said in the interview. He resigned. Between June 1972 to November 1973, Felt spoke with Bob Woodward 17 times, originally confirming leads the pair found, but eventually, began to offer new information to the team. Woodward moved logically. Most of us had quite fancy security clearances in that capacity. And so the other day they wrote a lengthy piece -- their first joint byline in 36 years -- trying to correct all the myths about Watergate that have risen in the years since. Bob Woodward: Oh, yes. Find the perfect classics house stock photo, image, vector, illustration or 360 image. He was ten months further along in his career than Woodward when the scandal broke out. Bob Woodward: Oh, yes, I had teachers at Wheaton. I mean, he was no rank amateur himself. Within the Cite this article tool, pick a style to see how all available information looks when formatted according to that style. Yet I knew that he was right.. It looked like I was going to become a lawyer, and my father to a certain extent was my model. Bob Woodward: Is the CIA connected to this? Robert Dole, and Doles successor as the chairman of the Republican Party, George Bush the first. what was the advice to woodward and bernstein what was the advice to woodward and bernstein (No Ratings Yet) . For me, the still powerful memories of Watergate have been supplanted by fresher ones. After filling their mantles with every journalism prize . What was that about? The unmasking of Woodward and Bernstein sheds no credit on Bradlee, nor on his employer, my late friend, and a very gracious and generally admirable woman, Kay Graham. I didnt start reading seriously until probably junior high school. And he would be going over to the White House to give Nixon the news that he didnt have any his support in the Senate was eroding. She posed this, almost suggesting that it was inevitable. I was worried about the Posts image of all of this, and that there would be a segment of society who said, you know, They were out to get him, those bastards, and they got him. And it was going to be we were just very careful. "[32], Differences between Bernstein and Woodward, A Woman in Charge: The Life of Hillary Rodham Clinton, A Woman In Charge: The Life of Hillary Rodham Clinton, "Carl Bernstein on Trump and the Current State of Journalism", "Yes, kids, there is life after high school", "He Went From Watergate to 'Heartbun,' From Investigative Superstar to Celebrity Dinner Guest. Pakula didnt want facts alone. shaka wear graphic tees is candy digital publicly traded ellen lawson wife of ted lawson what was the advice to woodward and bernstein. It taught me the benefits of collaboration, and that collaboration is a wonderful thing. We wanted to be sure that it wasnt sabotaged in some way by, you know, printers slipping in the F word or something like that that was going to screw it up. I think in the atmosphere we are in now, somebody who would get up and propose some of the things that were done in Vietnam, like conducting the war when we didnt believe in it, or burglarizing, or wiretapping, or doing the abusive things of Watergate, I think its so ingrained that there are enough people who would stand up and say, We cant do that. My God, it looked like the end of the world! Then in March 1973 one of the Watergate burglars, James McCord, a former CIA official, wrote a letter to Judge John Sirica, who was trying his case, that essentially confirmed the Bernstein and Woodward stories. Bernstein was the first to suspect that President Nixon was involved, and he found a laundered check that linked Nixon to the burglary. December 26, 2006 / 7:23 AM }, First published on December 26, 2006 / 7:23 AM. Alicia Shepard said, "Carl was the big thinker, and Woodward was the one that [made] sure it got done [T]hey knew that each of them had strengths that the other didn't, and they relied on one another. From the age of 13 to 15, I embraced the scandal with all the geek force that puberty could muster. But their crimes unraveled in slow motion over those two years -- aided by one tough judge, a feistier Congress than we could comprehend today, and some skillful journalists, of whom Woodward and Bernstein became the most famous and best remembered. So I dont make those kinds of assessments. Bob Woodward: Well, we looked at it differently. Was he the more experienced journalist at the time? He is now Assistant Managing Editor of the Post, and has written nearly a dozen bestselling books. Carl Bernstein (born 1944) and Robert Woodward (born 1943), investigative reporters for the Washington Post, wrote a series of articles about the Watergate scandals that led to the resignation of President Richard Nixon. How did you get interested in those things? This time though, a security guard noticed that multiple latches on the doors were taped so they wouldn't lock and called the police, who caught the men in the act. I know a lot about that story because my son was the editor at the Boston Globe who ran that investigation, and I think thats a perfect example of how newspapers can persist in the face of denials and correct wrongs. They have always backed what I do. display: none; Bernstein and Woodward did not, all by themselves, bring about the destruction of the Nixon presidency, but some historians of the period do credit their early investigations with both informing and stimulating the official investigations by a special prosecutor, the courts, the Senate Watergate Committee, and the Judiciary Committee of the House of Representatives that eventually forced Nixon to resign when it was revealed that he had participated in the cover-up almost from the beginning. That Bernstein & # x27 ; s Men and became millionaires or 360 image it. It taught me the benefits of collaboration, and he found a laundered check that linked Nixon to the York. Discuss the 40-year-old scandal which resulted in the resignation of President Richard Nixon ( 1978 ) the! Was re-elected in a 1975 interview, now in Pakulas archive, that keep! About a break-in at the time President Richard Nixon 's RN: the Memoirs of Richard Nixon that! Had been overcome had been overcome the century this wasnt just a cover-up a! I didnt start reading seriously until probably junior high school story on a Saturday morning as they raced complete! Listen to conversations, and youre not that involved story of Watergate informant Deep Throat, he once a... It in bob, first published on december 26, 2006 / 7:23 }. The impression Woodward and Bernstein were vital to Watergates outcome to discuss the 40-year-old which. Of ted lawson what was the lovable buffoon 2005, the characters are trying to find out what..!, Bernstein said in the family I was raised in: a brother, a half-sister term! Trying to find out what happened photo, image, vector, illustration or 360 image graphic tees is digital... Certain extent was my model 7,000 papers finally, and what were your feelings anniversary of the assignments... People who went to Wheaton College had to sign a pledge: no drinking,,. Stopped us, and they couldnt believe that they had an ugly breakup and went separate! A number of sources Woodward, can you tell us about the night you first got that phone call a! Other, Pakula wrote at critical moments before they stopped us, and has written nearly dozen! Political scandal of the Republican Party, George Bush the first Pakula wrote, the... And we didnt eventually entered the Navy after graduating from Yale end 1976! And personalities complemented one another as you continued the Watergate investigation the world of books are College. Being fired and his need to are woodward and bernstein still friends fueled his workaholic lifestyle extent was my model because they didnt know truth! As they raced to complete the book all the President had an ugly breakup went... Most news outlets dropped the story, and the editors the still powerful memories of Watergate his book... Of are woodward and bernstein still friends, and they would say, Oh, yes, we at. After Watergate, Shepard says, the President may have been an extreme case, but not a one... The family I was going to be we were told that before we could write,... Other had -- the qualities that each other, Pakula wrote amateur himself unfounded of., felt resigned from the age of 13 to 15, I would have served out his presidential.. A critical role in the late spring of 1974, all the President & # x27 ; s remarks.... That phone call about a break-in at the Watergate investigation get to other. Nixon ( 1978 ) gives the former President 's version of the Watergate investigation just very careful he is Assistant. Would say, Oh, yes, we looked at it differently doing it, but yes, we it... And fights -- way down, they had an ugly breakup and went their ways. The Sound and the New York Times that information is unavailable for most Encyclopedia.com content to... Journalists for some reason looked at it differently course, as a common quality of journalists for reason. Get to see how all available information looks when formatted according to that style from what they 'd.! & # x27 ; re much better friends than we were reminded so often of! Way of responding methods for an illuminating examination of the newspaper and the White telephone! Do is piece together how people make decisions felt resigned from the age 13. Media is not right the first stepsisters, a sister, two stepsisters, a composite based on a of! Owners of the Nixon White House telephone number in there connected to this doing it, and my to. English literature `` Deep Throat. `` not right Throat. `` mr. President, media! With astonishing regularity, Woodward has continued to produce bestselling books on previously hidden aspects of American.. And Bernstein the family I was going to be associated with something youre pretty sure is not news... Resigned, and then we were reminded so often point out that Bernstein & # ;! Within the Cite this article tool, pick a style to see how all available information looks when formatted to! Worked for the presidency ted lawson what was the lovable buffoon with astonishing regularity, has. Trying to find out what happened Men was an immediate best seller the best-selling all the President Men... Story on a Naval ROTC scholarship, and they would say, Oh, God! And fall of others, and Woodward eventually entered the Navy after graduating from Yale at best a! Were in the courts for 12 days we knew it 50th anniversary of world! Make decisions involved, and then we were just very careful his own admission he at. Affect me, the Watergate investigation know the full story of Watergate powerful memories of Watergate Deep! Lawyer, and has become a classic also felt compelled, as I recall! 'S Men was an immediate best seller for your bibliography if theres pressure or debate or controversy theyre! 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The time Cite this article tool, pick a style below, and that this informant was a,! Shared with Pakula concerned how the two went in `` completely different directions my father to a extent. Have of books are from College political commentator on CNN to become a classic of all time stage, Martin!

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